Can you leave in 30 minutes?

The other day, my friend and I were discussing our preparedness level. Eventually, we began discussing the importance of being ready to leave our homes on very short notice. One thing led to another and we decided that we would each take one hour to prepare, then leave our homes and hike to the top of a nearby mountain and hike back down in the morning. In the spirit of adventure and to test ourselves even further, we intentionally left behind some essentials and some items that would make us comfortable. For instance, we did not bring a shovel, a stove, a ground pad, a tent, sweets, a water filter, or a coat. On the other hand, we took some heavy items that we didn't really need, but it would be unrealistic to practice a "bug out" without them. We each carried a rifle, 100 rounds of ammo, 3 days worth of food, and 3 liters of water. Including the rifles, our total kit was around 50 pounds. The idea was to see how well we fared under extreme, unplanned conditions. Another thing we lacked was physical preparation. Neither he nor I have a regular exercise regime and we are both about 50 lbs overweight. We chose to test ourselves on a steep 3.5 mile mountain trail that ended at a lake. To make it even more interesting, we decided to leave at night. Oh, I almost forgot, my friend suffers from siatica in his left leg and I was nursing a right knee that I reinjured the day before.

Most folks who hike this trail take around 2 hours to get to the lake and about 2 hours to get back down. We figured that it would take us about 3 hours - 3.5 hrs at the most. We were a little off.

Without boring you too much, let's just say that we found many areas where we need improvement. The hike took us around 4 hours, when we reached the top the temperature was just under 40 degrees, we slept (yeah right) on rocks and hard patches of grass which made our rest spotty - to put it mildly. I slept nearly 3 hours, while my friend is lucky if he got 45 minutes.

Here are some of the items I missed the most. A good ground pad or a hammock, a better sling for my rifle, my big knife (which eliminates the need for a small knife and a shovel), a watch cap to wear while I sleep, a water filter, a poncho (which can double as a tarp in case of bad weather), extra socks, moleskin, snack food, more food, a stove, and a coat. Obviously I won't bring all these items every time, but the lack of certain comforts made the trip more stressful than it could have been. The one item I missed the most was my big knife. With it I could have at least softened the ground and gotten a better rest.

This little adventure was critical to better preparation. We both learned a lot, and will be better prepared for our next adventure and ultimately, for an emergency situation. I recommend that anyone who is serious about preparedness take a similar trip.

We have now planned a second trip. The next trip will be to the west desert, will involve five people instead of two, will be for a longer period of time, and will only allow us 1/2 hour to prepare.

What I'd like to see for future outings is each of us bug out to a predestined location on 15 minutes notice. The only information we will receive is where to meet, how long we expect to be gone, and how long we have to get to the meeting place. Some folks may wish to stick with just a fanny pack, others may want to take a full backpack, others may wish to carry both.

In addition to having our kit sorted out, I think it is just as important to be physically and mental prepared to "go" at a moment's notice. I am committed to losing at least 30 pounds and keeping my joints healthy. There is no doubt that my extra weight and lack of exercise was the most significant factor in my discomfort.

Below, I have listed some of the items that I suggest you have on a belt as your bare essentials to strap on and go with a moments notice.

Knife, water, fire starter (matches, lighter, magnesium and flint), MREs, poncho, blanket or sleeping bag, ground pad or hammock, spoon, metal cup, stove or sterno, rope or string, moleskin, first aid, extra socks, hat, sunglasses, 120 rounds of ammo, water filter, gloves, shorts, jacket, multi-purpose tool, trail mix, wet wipes, toilet paper, soap, toothbrush, razor, emergency blanket, mirror or CD - for signaling, whistle, rifle. Happy hiking.

Can you help me understand how gun ownership helps?

I recently spoke with a woman who lives in New Jersey. She had some great questions about gun ownership. Her questions were so good that I decided that the answers should be shared with others who might be in a similar situation. Please let me know if this helps you and if you have comments on anything else that I should have mentioned.

Before I answer her specific questions, I want to make a general argument about how gun ownership can help people.

Gun ownership is like wrestling in water - it levels the playing field. A 110 lb woman who pulls a gun out of her purse can instantly stop two 250 lb drug crazed rapists. Gun ownership allows citizens the ability to protect their life and property from criminals. Police will rarely be in a position to stop a rape, a mugging, or a car-jacking. In these situations, only an armed female stands a good chance of surviving unharmed.
Even a grown man is no match for a group of hardened hoodlums intent on hurting him or taking his property. However, a single gun in the hands of someone who is not afraid to use it can quickly quiet the most obnoxious hoodlums.

Today's criminal is a parasite. They prey on the weak. They will attack in garages, on quiet streets, in school parking lots, in empty homes, while you are carrying groceries, and while you are pushing a stroller. They are looking for the quickest "score" where they will meet with the least amount of resistance. Simply having a gun on you may raise your awareness and confidence to a degree that a criminal will sense that you may offer too much resistance. Whose walk do you think would be faster and appear more nervous; The girl walking down a deserted street alone, or the girl with her hand in her backpack holding her gun and looking around for danger?

On a national level, gun ownership helps by presenting an unspoken warning to government. The second amendment was written so that citizens would have the means to confront a tyrannical government and so that the non-military people (the militia)could quickly assemble as a standing army in the event of a foreign attack. It has been shown that states that grant their citizens a permit to carry concealed weapons see a sudden drop in violent crime. This is because the criminals are unsure who is armed and who will offer resistance. I contend that governments harbor that same fear. If every person in America was armed, we would have a more polite society and we would have a government that was not so quick to take away our rights.

I believe in personal responsibility. Making a decision to carry a gun is the first and most important step in taking personal responsibility for your self-defense. If you are not willing to make an effort to protect yourself, why should anyone else be willing to protect you?

Now here are the questions -

Q - When my friend and I started inquiring about gun ownership, it seems as if there are so many restrictions that I can't see the practical value. Maybe that's only because of the laws in NJ.

A - It is not just NJ. There are many states that absolutely do not want their citizens armed and put up as many restrictions as possible. Reasonable people understand that this will not prevent criminals from getting and using guns. In fact, over regulation of gun laws almost guarantees safety for criminals. Remember this; the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Any law that contradicts the constitution is invalid. It was not written to prohibit the freedom of the people but to keep the government from abusing the power granted them by the people. The bill of rights is not a list of privileges; it is a list of natural rights that the government is forbidden from infringing upon. No government has the right to prevent you from the means of self-defense.

Q - For example, if I got a permit to buy a gun, what would I have to do to be able to carry it?

A - First of all, I urge you NOT to get a permit - EVER. Not because I suggest operating outside of the law, but because the law has no authority to grant that permission. It is your right to keep and bear arms. The permit is a way of allowing local NJ law enforcement officers to play God and decide who should and shouldn't be able to have a gun. It is also the main way of creating a local database of gun owners. Simply applying for a permit will add your name to that list. If you do not believe me, I can send you proof. They are now using these databases to confiscate legally purchased guns in Chicago, and CA. But, to answer your question, once you have obtained a NJ permit to buy a gun, you must buy a gun within 72 hours (maybe it is a week?) or you have to go through the whole process again. This is not about safety, it is about control. When you go to buy the gun - only from a licensed dealer (FFL)in NJ, they will then make you fill out another set of forms for a background check. This now puts your name into a national database. Then, after you "own" the gun, you must keep it in your home or in a locked box. If you then want to carry it (good luck in NJ) you will need to get permission to take a concealed carry class. Upon passing that class, your name will be put into another database, and the state will make you get a new drivers license which indicates that you are a concealed weapons carrier. In addition, you will have to get a CCW permit that is required to be on your person any time you have the gun with you. Of course, this is all moot, because unless you are personal friends with a politician in NJ, there is almost NO CHANCE that you will get a NJ CCW. I will make my recommendation at the end of this message.

Q - If I couldn't carry it, what use is it to me?

A - Absolutely none when you are most likely to need it. However, you could still have it on your property and when traveling. More on this later.

Q - Even in my house, if I can't keep it easily accessible and loaded, how will it help me protect myself?

A - It won't. As anyone can see, these laws aren't made for your protection, they were made to control you, increase revenue, and protect government employees. It also becomes a shopping list to break into your home and steal your weapons. Knowing NJ, if your stolen gun were then used in a crime, it would be your fault and you would be charged with failure to carefully secure a dangerous weapon, or some such nonsense. I don't know if this would happen, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Q - I guess an unloaded but real gun pointed at certain potential criminals would scare them off, but can I carry it even unloaded?

A - No. In NJ, it doesn't matter if it is loaded or not - you can not carry it or brandish it without permission. Besides, are you willing to gamble and point an unloaded gun at a criminal? What if he calls your bluff?

Now, here is another option. If you are like most people, with the exception of a courthouse and an airport, your bag has never been searched and you have never been "frisked". With that in mind, how great a risk are you really taking if you start carrying a weapon? The only reason you would ever use it would be for self-defense in a life-threatening situation. Chances are that in that situation, there would be no one there to see you use it anyway. Even if there were, a ticket for carrying a gun without a permit is much better than being dead. Besides, most juries will find you not guilty if the gun were used for self-defense.

There are a few things that I recommend if you intend to carry a gun.
Get shooting lessons. Try shooting several different guns and pick the one that you like the best, are most comfortable with, is easy to conceal and use, and offers the greatest protection. The cost is the least important factor. A gun carried properly, is a good form of life-insurance and will outlast anyone you know. This insurance can be passed down for generations or sold later at a profit.

The following suggestions are answers to hypothetical questions that I offer as suggestions.

1. How to get a gun if not from a local dealer? - From another state. Many states still allow for the private sale of firearms to residents of that same state. The legal definition of a resident is someone who lives in that state or intends to live there and is in the process of moving to that state. You also may be given a gun from a friend or family member. Do not register it, do not tell anyone about it. Through a private sale is the only way I would ever suggest getting a gun. It is the only way that you can be sure you and your gun will not be on any government databases. - By the way, when congress approved background checks, they did it with one condition. The condition was that there would be NO NATIONAL DATABASE of gun owners. The FBI, SBI, and BATF have violated that condition from day one. They have refused to destroy these records that congress insisted be destroyed "immediately".

2. What about Gun Safety?- Again, I suggest taking lessons outside of the nanny state or from a competent person in the privacy of your own home. As a certified NRA instructor, I am certified to give firearms instruction and would gladly do so in someone's home. If that person did not want a certificate or any record of that training, I would have NO problem at all with that and would even reduce my training fee. For close friends or family, I might even waive my fee.

3. How do I Carry the Gun?- You can carry either on your body, in your bag, or in your vehicle. If on your body, find at least one comfortable holster that can be worn everyday. If this is your plan, it is important to get a gun that is easy to conceal. If in your bag, weight and size are also an issue. You might consider sewing an extra pocket in your bag to allow easier access in the event of an emergency. In your car - This is important. If you carry on your body or in your car, I suggest a combo-locking briefcase. If you are in the car alone, lay the gun in the briefcase on the seat next to you - but leave it unlocked. It will be within reach if needed. If for any reason you get stopped by police, close the briefcase and lock it before the police come up to your car. Next, get out of the car and lock the car behind you. Current law allows Law Enforcement Officers (LEO) to search your reachable area. If your car is locked behind you, it no longer poses a threat to the LEO. Even if you can not get out of your car and the police DO search your vehicle, they can not search the briefcase without a warrant. REFUSE to open the case regardless of any threats that the LEO makes. Tell him you don't have the combination. In order to "legally" get into your briefcase, the LEO will need probable cause. See that your car in neat order and that there is nothing in view that will give them probable cause to get a warrant. The book "You and the Police" by Boston T. Party offers great suggestions and more information on this.

4. What about Practice? - I suggest lots of practice. Practice indoors with NO AMMO. Practice handling, loading, putting the safety on and off, pointing, getting it in and out of the bag or holster. Practice dry-firing to improve your skill, practice sighting and "point shooting", and develop confidence with your guns. Practice as often as you can. When you are ready to practice shooting at targets, find a quiet private range away from your local area. The idea is so that you want no one you know to see you there. Remember, you don't want anyone to know that you have a gun. There are lots of places in PA or upstate NY where you can practice and not be bothered. I may even be able to help you find some places.

5. What if I Need to Use My Gun?- Chances are very small that you will ever need to use it, but the idea is to always be prepared for that chance. If you feel that your life is threatened or that you may be in for severe bodily harm, you can legally use the gun to stop that threat. If raising the gun and shouting "STOP NOW!" ends that threat - and it usually does, then you can be on your way. If it does not, then shoot to kill. This is important. The law says that you can use it to stop an imminent threat to life or limb. Therefore, if you only shoot to wound, it can be argued (and is argued) that the threat was not that great. However, if you shoot to kill (even if you only wound them) you are within the law and will be acquitted. Because of the legal ramifications, I would strongly suggest that you never use your gun to protect those that you do not know. In the event that you do use it in self-defense, what you do next will be a big decision. What happened? Did someone rescue you? Did you shoot? Do you stay or go? Do you call the police? These are tough questions that only you can answer. I believe the answer depends on the situation. Either way, it will be stressful. Although statistics are tough to find on this, I believe that the ratio of shooting the perp to ending the conflict by just pointing a gun is around 20:1 - In other words, in only 5 out of 100 cases do people actually have to shoot to stop the treat. These are great odds. Plus, if the odds of survival are 0% without shooting, the decision to pull the trigger should be an easy one. I would rather be alive to argue about it than dead.
Consider the following:

• Chance of being searched by LEO and them finding a gun - almost none.
• Chance of you ever having to kill with your gun - almost none
• Chance of survival with gun if attacked - significantly greater.(especially for women)
• Penalty for having un-permitted gun in your possession - insignificant, maybe confiscation of gun and upto $150 fine.
• Cost of following the letter of the law - Permit $250, additional cost of buying a new gun from dealer $200, Background check $75, CCW permit $75 (if even possible), cost of being on databases - almost certain confiscation of gun, probable insurance increases, future license renewals and fees, and potential increase of break-ins.

In my mind, there is ample reason to purchase and carry a gun without jumping through legal hoops and making a target of yourself. If this is your decision, I will help you in any way that I can.

Feedback on "Unthinkable"

I received dozens of comments on my last post. Most of the comments indicated that people have been thinking and writing about this subject for a long time. Here are a couple of the comments, with links I urge you to check out.

Kristopher Barrett wrote:


And I've been at this rant maybe a month longer:

Read "Bill of Rights Nullification by the US Supreme court"

It's getting really Orwellian out there. The only good thing about it
is that the stupid f_ers forgot to grab all the firearms before they
started turning the screws.

Then a second reply from Bill:

Forgot? Or maybe they don't think that most of what's in the hands of
"the duck hunters" out there is gonna make one whole hell of a lot of difference? Or that most folks won't have the balls/inclination to use those firearms when things get to whatever line in the sand they choose?

It makes me wonder.

Indeed. The best commentary I've read to date on Americans' unwillingness to use their liberty teeth is Jeff Snyder's "Walter Mitty's Second Amendment".

Unthinkable Thoughts

Lately, many folks I know have been thinking about things that until recently we would never have considered.
A friend sent me a half dozen documentary video tapes from Alex Jones and Terry Reed. Most of the information was very well documented and contains a great deal of evidence of Government orchestrated conspiracies.
Another friend just informed me that all (political) rallies now require a permit from the Office of Homeland Security.

So the unthinkable question arises - If this is true, then haven't we arrived at the police state with not even a pretense of republicanism left?

Soviet generals are being contracted to help design the new all-encompassing Department of National Intelligence, protest zones are in place for the First Amendment, the ADL indoctrinating F.B.I. (et. al.) nationwide, John Ashcroft wants anyone speaking out against Israel or the Jews considered terrorists -- what more do we need?

Rick Stanley was found guilty of threatening a judge and may be sentenced to 30 years in prison. A witness submitted this:

The judge asked the jury to leave the room. Talk went back and forth with Penner on the stand. Then the judge began reasoning through what had just happened. He recounted for about 15 minutes what all had transpired and it was beginning to feel as if he was working up a head of steam to justify declaring a mistrial.

Then, all of a sudden, he said it doesn't matter and called for the jury to return. For the next several minutes I read his body language. He knew he had just committed a due process atrocity. He was ashamed, but not enough to put an end to the travesty taking place in his court.

A friend who just returned home from Iraq sent me this:

i am feeling stronger every
day that "we" need to develop our own community with the laws we want -
nothing illegal. but a town of "educated" people. you are making me more and
more paranoid, i mean, educated.

As you know, many such communities are already in the works. I say the sooner the better. But, will isolation protect us? Did it protect the children at Waco? Did it protect Randy Weaver's family?

There are so many unthinkable thoughts...

For some unthinkable thoughts on life, death and taxes, go to Unthinkable Thoughts.

Letters to the Gov

My friend Rick Stanley is in trouble. He told a judge that he didn't have jurisdiction over his case - BIG MISTAKE!
Anyway, now he may be put away for 20+ years. The problem is that Rick's fate will determine ours. Here is a short press release that I think you will all enjoy.


MEDIA RELEASE: Do you realize Rick Stanley's fate will determine yours?


Do you realize Rick Stanley's fate will determine yours?...Do you
know how crucial, devastating and nightmarish the police state will
be?...Those that work for the corrupt perpetrators, responsible for
our dilemmas, should have the guns?...and we should not?...Be at the
mercy of this crazy dictatorship trying to manifest complete control
over "US"?

My "God"...I'm terrified for all of "US"...not just "US"
either...Everyone stuck on this Globe

Please watch for urgent post titled..."SOS"..."SAVE OUR SELVES"...

In the meantime if you aren't familiar with what is behind and
happening to Rick...Please read the following letter...If you haven't
written one yet...Please do so now...

Do you want to leave this world without doing something to
help?...Now's your chance to "Help "US", Help "US" All"...

Send your letter to help him to rick@stanley2002.org

This particular letter will help fill you in so you can write one...

Those of you who know all about Rick...What are you doing to help?

It's your children's futures at stake here, too

Sincerely,
Marsha


MEDIA RELEASE: letter to Gov. Owens from the Hughes family.

Gov. Owens

I have been trying to teach my boys about the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They get bored sometimes. But I have an obligation to teach them.

I decided to take my son to a gathering of people
that love the U.S. Constitution. We went to support
Rick Stanley. He was a libertarian candidate for
Congress in 2002 www.stanley2002.org

His life story to defend the Constitution ended in a
night mare.....He went out to a town that did not allow
people to carry an open gun (in plain site.) This
goes against the Colorado and the US Constitution.

He wanted to get arrested and to show the
government that they had to obey the Constitution.
He lost his case, Then he went to another town and
did the same thing. He was arrested again. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail. While he was in jail he wrote a letter to both judges that they did not have jurisdiction over him and that they had both broken their oath to obey and uphold both Constitutions, and that they cannot be above the law. He said that they were violating the law and subject to arrest for treason if they did not drop the charges on him.

Meanwhile the Colorado legislature with the help of
Gov. Owens told the towns that they could not violate
a persons right to carry a gun. They changed the law
and made it retroactive. BUT, BUTthey did not drop
the charges against Rick because he had sent a
letter to them and the judges said that
he was trying to tamper with the court. So they
charged
him with that and he is now looking at years and years
in prison.

While he was out on bond. His probation said that he
could not carry a gun until his appeals and court
proceedings where done. The swat team, FBI, IRS, Jefferson county police, Adams county police, city police, state patrol, there were over 50 cops that raided his home/business. They took everything that he needed to run his business like bills, invoices, money, computers, disks, files, phones etc. etc.

They 1- wanted to start a confrontation by going in with
over 50 officers. 2- wanted to find a gun so that they
could charge him with violating his probation. 3-destroy
his ability to earn a living by taking his papers that he needed for his business. 4-destroy his reputation by taking his bills, so that he couldn't pay his bills. 5-take his money so he couldn't pay his legal bills. 6-they intimidated his employees and all but 1 quit. 7-cause undo stress for him and his family. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THEY WANTED TOTAL CONTROL. THEY WANTED HIM TO KNOW WHO IS THE BOSS.

When we were at the rally in front of the court house,
on his first day of court. We were holding signs and
showing support for the Colorado Constitution and
the 2nd Amendment.

We were a crowd of old, young, men,
women, grandparents, sisters, handicapped, poor,
and rich.

This is why I/we went. To show the courts that there
are people that are willing to stand up for freedom.
And to show these judges that we support the
Constitution. And we will not loose or give up our
rights.

I don't think Rick Stanley should be put in a hole
(prison) for defending the U.S. Constitution.

Cliff, Adam and Aaron Hughes

Commitment (Revised)

My post on Courage got lots of feedback. Thank you. It is nice to get an idea of what the reader likes and doesn't like. The biggest question (or objection)that I am hearing from folks who want to move west is that they are concerned about an income or housing.
It is my opinion that as long as you allow your fear of the unknown to control you, you will never be in a position to move.
Instead of worrying about the details, I suggest that you begin planning. Make a goal. A goal must be realistic and it must have a date. A goal must also be something that you can control. (You can have a goal to move to Wyoming in August of 2006, but you can't have a goal to fall in love and get married.)
Once you have written down your goals, study them. Make sure that they are realistic. Make your goals positive statements. Don't make negative words or phrases part of your goal statement. Read your goals every morning and evening. Visualize yourself accomplishing your goals. Associate with the people who can help you accomplish your goals. Do any study required to accomplish those goals. For instance, if your goal is to become a realtor within 12 months, you should get into a class right away and schedule the exam. You should also begin associating with people in that industry. Read books that will make you more effective.
Finally, once you have made your goals, make a commitment to yourself and share it with anyone else that your decision impacts. Commit to yourself that you WILL move to Wyoming by X date. Once you have committed in your mind and believe it to be so - it WILL be so.

Let me share something with you that my sister found for me after my bicycle trip. She painted this on a manuscript for me 22 years ago. I read it every day and it has never failed me.


UNTIL ONE IS COMMITTED THERE IS HESITANCY, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness.
Concerning all acts of initiative and creation there is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans:
that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves, too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favour all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. WHATEVER YOU CAN DO OR DREAM YOU CAN DO, BEGIN IT. Boldness and genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.

And here is another quote that a friend just sent me:
"We are continually faced with great opportunities brilliantly disguised as insoluble problems." ( One of my very favorites..I love the two sided image of it!)

Some replies to "Thoughts on Courage" (revised)

After posting the "Courage" piece, I got dozens of responses. While most were positive, a couple asked some really good questions. For the benefit of everyone, I will post a few of the replies. One asks excellent questions, and the others answer the questions far better than I might have. - FT

Reply 1: I hope it works for you, but I think that the people of Wyoming and Montana still have SS numbers and pay income tax. They still get marriage and driver's licenses and all the rest of the crap. I don't remember seeing anywhere that the enviro wackos have left those two states out of their bio-whatever plans or that the endangered species or any of the other insane laws like that don't apply to Wyoming, etc.

I'm not trying to put you down or denigrate what you are trying to do, but I'd like a little more detail. Just exactly what is different and what is more free there than other places? If you really want people, especially those with families, to risk everything they have to move there, it seems they need a little more detail to base it on. They will also be quite free to freeze or starve to death because they can't make a living there. I'd like to see that addressed. It takes more than just "courage" to do something like that. It takes facts, careful planning and preparation - some other vital parts of living free.

I have not seen anything yet to convince me moving anywhere is a good idea. I'd really like to have some articles honestly exploring some of these questions, with some real meat details along with the emotional "courage" stuff. Boston has made a pretty good start. Anybody else want to take a stab at it? xxxxxx (name withheld until I get permission)

Reply 2: Montana and Wyoming are not yet shining beacons on a hill, but some of us think it is worth making an effort to have some places where we can concentrate effectively and not only shore up what freedom may still exist in these states, but through force of numbers, reverse the tide. These states are being promoted because they have small indigenous populations which have a relatively high degree of predisposition toward freedom. They share characteristics in common with rural areas throughout the West, the Ozarks, the South, and to some extent, the Midwest. But because Montana and Wyoming lack the really big cities found in other states, the rural influences still predominate.

I would not claim that a move to these states is going to be easy. Indeed, it may be difficult, depending on your circumstances. The economy is not great here, nor the wage levels. Some areas have really low housing prices (and poor job prospects), and others have housing prices which approach the national norm, coupled with lower than average wages. As xxxxx xxxxx said in an essay regarding Montana, Bring Guns and Money. If you have any options regarding working out of your home, or using the internet in the course of your work, there are many opportunities in Montana (and I'm sure Wyoming as well) to acquire property cheaply and make a go of it. Some professions are in demand, such as teachers and nurses and doctors, in rural areas, but don't expect to get rich.

____, many of your questions regarding specifics have been researched in some detail, and are postedat http://freewest.org .

xxxxx (name withheld until I get permission)

Reply 3: *Hi, Beautiful,
I love your attitude, but I'm afraid I've got to confess that I live in
Montana and I do not use the SSN, do not pay the Federal Income tax, do not
register my guns with any government anywhere, do not use the "marriage
license", do not use a driver's license, do not use a bank account, do not
use a credit card, do not own any property, and do not do a number of lesser
annoying practices common to current American society.

Perhaps I'm just a very lucky dude, but I moved to Montana three years ago and
have found the general levels of freedom here to be far superior to any
states excepting Alaska and Wyoming. Plus, I've found good neighbors here
like xxxxxxx, xxxxxx, and xxxxxxx and xxxxxxx, and etc
and etc. I've also found that a dude like me, who flunked out of college long
ago, can survive nicely in Montana if he is willing to use his hands and his
head. Maybe everything comes down to that "courage" which Fran's essay
illustrates. I moved here on courage. I did not know if I could survive in
Montana when I arrived here three years ago. I just knew that I could no
longer put up with life-as-usual back east and down south, so I hit the road
with my stuff and have found that life is wonderful here for me. Courage
sometimes works! :)

Xxxxxxx has spoken eloquently of Montanan and Wyomingian (is that a
word?) cultural mores and morays, and I assure you that xxxxx has spoken the
truth on that matter. Boston is operating on very sound intelligence, and I
have faith in his vision, his ability to be a libertarian-styled leader, and
his instincts regarding liberty. The people I personally know who are moving
there are strong liberty people, and they're smart to boot. (My hope is that
Boston will continue to resist all the "needs" to "organize" the movement,
lol.)

Anyway, xxxxx, I'm one person in Montana, whom you know personally and have
met more than once, who does not do any of those things you've listed above.
If my good neighbors up here do use the licenses and SSNs and pay the taxes,
it's only because me'n xxxxxx and xxxxx ain't got around to convertin' all
of 'em yet, hehehe. But we're workin' on it. :)

Hugs,
Elias (name used without permission...it's a jumble)

Thoughts on Courage

America has become all but emasculated. Thanks in part to government schools, Dr. Spock, and daytime TV.

I was watching a neighborhood t-ball game last year. This is a game where kids swing a bat at a ball perched on top of a post. First of all, I have a problem with the whole concept. For 200 years, our kids swung sticks or bats at balls UNTIL they could hit them. But in today's mamby-pamby society, this has become politically incorrect because some children aren't ABLE to hit the ball. But, this isn't what really set me off. What REALLY set me off was that no team wins. They just want all the kids to have a good time and learn to be good sports. Our socialist soccer moms are teaching kids that winning isn't nearly as important as just playing ball to learn to get along. This is just one of dozens of examples of changes designed to emasculate our society.

"Now why on earth would anyone want to emasculate our society?", you might ask.
Simple; they want us to be docile when they take away our rights. They don't want us to be used to fighting, let alone winning. They don't want us to develop our natural survival instincts.

Our society is growing up without courage. Most people have no "heart", no "fight", no "guts".
I was lucky to have grown up with parents who survived the depression. They taught me the meaning of courage. In my lifetime, my father went bankrupt twice, and still managed to put seven kids through college while being self-employed.
As I grew up, I was never afraid of failure, only of failing to try. I did what I wanted and started many of my own businesses. During the summer break of my second year of college, I took a bicycle trip from Cape Hatteras, NC to San Francisco, CA.  The trip took 5 weeks. Most days, I rode between 150 and 200 miles a day. When I started the trip, I had $175 in cash. I had no "set" route, and I had never done an "overnight" bike trip in my life. Everyone said I was crazy, that I would be killed, that I should plan to do the trip with an experienced touring company. Frankly, I didn't understand all the fuss. I knew that I could do anything I put my mind to, so I just went for it. On the trip, I discovered a lot about myself and a lot about the country. It was on this trip that I made up my mind that someday, I would live in Wyoming. For years, and even today, when people learned of my trip, the first question they ask is, "weren't you scared?". I never understood that question. For me, it was as natural as anything else I had done in my life, what on earth was there to be scared of? Now, 25 years after my trip, I realize why people asked me that question. They lack courage. Courage to follow their dreams, courage to take risks, courage to go into "unknown territory". I submit that most Americans have lost their courage; it has been bred out of them. They have been punished for thinking and questioning the status quo.

But, it is time that folks summon every bit of courage they can muster and begin to exercise these weak muscles. The time is coming when we will either stand up for what we believe, or it will be lost forever. For decades, we have stood by and watched as our rights were violated. We allowed the government to give us social security numbers, marriage licenses, building permits, income tax, and ban firearms in cities. We have allowed it to happen without so much as a peep. Now, we have our young men and women forced to wear light blue caps and follow orders from non-American leaders and fight (err... I mean keep peace) for the UN. We willingly let the government control every facet of our lives. We are nearing the time when it will be impossible to travel in this country without federal government issued identification and permission.

Those of us who still believe in freedom understand that there is a price to pay. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We also understand that those who remain surrounded by those who lack courage, will most likely not fare as well as those who are surrounded by others who are willing to defend their rights. Until now, there has been no "safe haven" for those seeking freedom. But now, there is a movement to concentrate those who are serious about freedom into a smaller geographic area. The hope is that once we have a nucleus of courageous individuals, that the momentum will spread and we can help others to find their courage. The hope is that by nurturing courageous instincts, rather than stifling them, courage will grow and become a welcome feeling rather than a foreign one. And for those who can muster up the courage to move to Wyoming, you will be rewarded with freedom. You see, freedom isn't completely gone from this country, it is still hiding in a few remote spots. Wyoming, has weathered the storm. The folks in Wyoming have not given up their rights as easily as some of the other states. However, the government continues its relentless fight for centralized control. The folks in Wyoming have done a great job of keeping the jackals at bay, but the fight is getting more difficult and maybe it is time to bring in some backups. So, if you desire freedom and have the courage to fight for it, perhaps you should consider Wyoming. Bring your guns, leave your attitude at home.

None of Your Business!

From Lew Rockwell

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

You may not have heard of the American Community Survey, but you will. The national census, which historically is taken every ten years, has expanded to quench the federal bureaucracy’s ever-growing thirst to govern every aspect of American life. The new survey, unlike the traditional census, is taken each and every year at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars. And it’s not brief. It contains 24 pages of intrusive questions concerning matters that simply are none of the government’s business, including your job, your income, your physical and emotional heath, your family status, your dwelling, and your intimate personal habits.

The questions are both ludicrous and insulting. The survey asks, for instance, how many bathrooms you have in your house, how many miles you drive to work, how many days you were sick last year, and whether you have trouble getting up stairs. It goes on and on, mixing inane questions with highly detailed inquiries about your financial affairs. One can only imagine the countless malevolent ways our federal bureaucrats could use this information. At the very least the survey will be used to dole out pork, which is reason enough to oppose it.

Keep in mind the survey is not voluntary, nor is the Census Bureau asking politely. Americans are legally obligated to answer, and can be fined up to $1,000 per question if they refuse!

Planning Your Move

I have been neglecting this blog for a while because it was beginning to get too political. The idea of this blog is not to discuss politics, but rather stimulate folks to consider making a freer life for themselves.

My own plan involves finding a good piece of land, building a home, planting a garden, and raising livestock.

Naturally, when one has great debt over their head, they are not free. So my plan - or I should say 'goal' - is to one day be free from debt.

It is funny to me how many people work 50 and 60 hour weeks, live in a city, and commute 2 hours a day so that they can "give their family a better life". Then, after 50 years at the job, they get some cheesy watch and get to retire on a fraction of what they have learned to live on. Their spouse hasn't spent more than 48 hours with them in the past 20 years and their kids are grown and don't really care if they visit with them or not. Bottom line, the only thing they have given their family is an income and they are a stranger to them.

I contend that by simplifying one's life, they can live far better on far less.
I realize that everyone is different and the following example might not work for a lot of folks, but my idea is to get you to think out of the box...figure out something that DOES work for you and DO IT.

This is one example of what one person can do. Here is a hypothetical plan for one poor slob who has been living in the same house for 20 years:

After getting his home appraised, he learned that he had $35,000 equity. He earns $50,000 a year and his mortgage payment is $850 a month. He also has $10,000 in savings and stocks.

He finds 20 acres for $60,000 and talks the owner into financing it for 10 years. He puts 6000 down and agrees to pay $600 per month.

Next, he buys a used trailer for $2000. He pulls it to the new property and plans to live in it while he builds a new home.

He plants a garden and erects a greenhouse for $100.
He goes to a livestock auction and buys 20 hens for $100, 6 pigs for $60, a calf for $90, a milk goat for $100, and 6 rabbits for $60.

He convinces his company to let him telecommuting and work only 4 days a week from home. This saves his company $30,000 on office, phone, and computer expenses, and they quickly jump at the opportunity.

Next, he buys some used equipment and hires a foreman to help him build a home which he has designed to be energy efficient and maintenance free. He doesn't want a mortgage, so he does most of the labor himself and plans the house to be completed in phases.

By the end of two years, he is producing 75% of his own food - which is tasty and organic, has finished his home - with no mortgage, has reduced his utility bills to $30 per month, and has started his own business - which is a small "service business". He has become part of the underground economy. Now, in addition to his $30,000 salary, he is making an additional $15,000 a year, tax free. His monthly expenses have dropped from $1900 per month down to $750 per month. The result is that he can pay off his land in 3 years instead of 10 and has more time with his family. He works 4 days a week instead of 5 - and has no commute, he spends more time hunting, shooting, skiing and fishing. He is much happier, healthier and is living better. He has never had more money in the bank and has never required less money for living. His wife has started home schooling his children, so they eat breakfast, lunch and dinner as a family. He reloads his own ammunition and trades a pig to his neighbor for his homemade beer and cider. Life is good.

Now I realize that the story is over-simplified, but I am meeting more and more folks who are actually making moves very similar to the example I just gave, and are finding it far easier than they ever imagined.

The truth is that the hardest part of breaking away from your current life and starting the life of your dreams is making the decision to do it and setting a goal to do it.

It can be done, but you must make a commitment to yourself. Set a goal. Find the land. Speak with your boss (or plan to relocate your business). Learn how to be self-reliant.

Of course, the plan would go much smoother if you had a small group of friends who would do it at the same time. However, let me caution you NOT to wait until others buy into your dream. Do it NOW.

Molôn Labé!

Two little words. With these two words, two concepts were verbalized that have lived for nearly two and a half Millennia. They signify and characterize both the heart of the Warrior, and the indomitable spirit of mankind. From the ancient Greek, they are the reply of the Spartan General-King Leonidas to Xerxes, the Persian Emperor who came with 600,000 of the fiercest fighting troops in the world to conquer and invade little Greece, then the center and birthplace of civilization as we know it. When Xerxes offered to spare the lives of Leonidas, his 300 personal bodyguards and a handful of Thebans and others who volunteered to defend their country, if they would lay down their arms, Leonidas shouted these two words back.

Molôn Labé! (mo-lone lah-veh)

They mean, “Come and get them!” They live on today as the most notable quote in military history. And so began the classic example of courage and valor in its dismissal of overwhelming superiority of numbers, wherein the heart and spirit of brave men overcame insuperable odds. Today, there lies a plaque dedicated to these heroes all at the site. It reads: “Go tell the Spartans, travelers passing by, that here, obedient to their laws we lie.”

We have adopted this defiant utterance as a battle cry in our war against oppression because it says so clearly and simply towards those who would take our arms.

It signifies our determination to not strike the first blow, but also to not stand mute and allow our loved ones, and all that we believe in and stand for, to be trampled by men who would deprive us of our God-given – or natural, if you will – rights to suit their own ends. (copied from Molon Labe)

Keneth Royce, aka Boston T. Party, has written a new novel entitled Molôn Labé! Some see it more as a blueprint or a how-to book than a novel. In the book, Boston tells a story about a small group of patriots who feel frustrated by the political climate and decide that they will create a free zone, county by county until they have a free state. His research is thorough and this conclusion is sound.

In a recent article in Colorado Freedom Report Boston states the following:
Wyoming is already more free than just about anyplace else in America, so moving there is automatically a net gain for most of us. With a few thousand of us there, we can take the Equality State to a higher level of liberty in just a few years. (Regardless of our political victories, the feds will rarely be able to get a conviction for any mala prohibita because at least one of us will usually be on their juries! It won't take that many of us to infiltrate the jury pools, and we'll be hip to the voir dire minefield. Very soon, we could begin to foil the FBI, ATF, DEA, IRS, FDA, and the rest!)

I'm with Boston. If we can attract those who desire freedom who are the rugged sort that can accept Wyoming the way it is and not change it, we can keep Wyoming the freest state and can have liberty in our lifetime. See you in Wyoming!


I highly reccommend Boston's books to those who desire freedom. For more information on Boston's books, go to Javelin Press

NJ - Bully Government

Just as Australia was where the English banished their criminals, NJ was where NY banished hers. Today’s events have made it obvious that some of those criminals wormed their way into the Department of Motor Vehicles.

I just got off the phone with an employee of the State of New Jersey Automobile Insurance Surcharge and Collection. I called to dispute a bill. You see, six months ago, I paid them $250 in extortion money to "release" the hold on my driving status. But, like all extortionists, once you pay them, they think they own you and that you will KEEP PAYING. I just received another "Initial Notice of Insurance Surcharge Assessment"saying that I owe them $250 due immediately. I explained that I paid it six months ago. Through this employee's barely intelligible English, he muttered that I have to pay it for three years. I asked "unless I get another license in my new state?" to which he replied, "it doesn't matter. If you don't pay us, we will suspend your license."
Let me explain. This "surcharge" was charged for a DUI in Chicago that I beat. There is no DUI on my record. NJ assessed the surcharge and doesn't care if I have the DUI or not. I have not lived in NJ for 6 years. I live in UT, but UT will not issue me a license because IL has a hold on my license. IL will not release the hold until I pay them a restoration fee of $250 for my IL license, which they created for me. I have never had an IL license, do not want an IL license, and under the "rules", am not "allowed" to possess more than one state issued driving permit. Utah's DMV computer does not show the reason for the hold, but will not issue until the hold is released.
The "go along to get along" crowd believes that I should just pay IL and pay NJ, give UT my SSN and ANY other information that they request so that I can carry a UT issued driving permit in my pocket. However, being a man of principal, I find this type of extortion repulsive and refuse to pay penalties for a crime I didn't commit, and refuse to pay "restoration fees" for licenses I do not own.
I went to court last month for a speeding ticket and was given a ticket for driving with an expired license. I explained that I wanted to plead not guilty, and a court date of June 10 was set. I have no expectation that the issue will be resolved on that date, but I will plead not guilty anyway.
Is there still any question about whether or not we are living in a police state? Why can a state randomly declare that I MUST pay them a $1000 surcharge over 4 years or they will revoke my "privilege" to drive - regardless of where I live? Why can a state refuse to issue a driver's license if one refuses to disclose their social security number? (By the way, the office of social security sent me a letter saying that I do NOT have to disclose my number to anyone or any agency UNLESS it involves social services) Today, I visited their site and found this - "The 1996 immigration reform provision on improved identification-related documents requires the SSN to be included on State drivers licenses by the year 2000. Thus, the drivers license and Social Security card can both be used to verify the SSN."
I also spoke with an agent at Social Security Administration (SSA) today. She told me that all employees of SSA are required to use their SSN for an employee ID. She said that SSA has stated that using any other numbering system would "inconvenience and disadvantage" the employer. So there you have it.
It is my wish to be free of both the SS system and the police state. Provided I am "permitted" to leave the court room with a small fine on June 10, I will make it my goal to never be stopped by another law enforcement officer. I have no doubt that IL and NY will continue their mafia-like efforts to squeeze money from me, but I will not pay one more cent to these thieves and racketeers. I believe I have a right to travel freely and will continue to do so. I have been driving with an expired license for two years now, to change this and begin dealing with the criminal element in the IL and NJ DMV's would "inconvenience and disadvantage" me.

Freedom...Not Free S#*T!

I have to give credit for the title to my friend Aaron. We just returned from the Grand Western Conference II. At the conference, some discussed coming up with a slogan for the western free state and Aaron came out with that. I think it fits perfectly. People either want freedom or they want free stuff from the government - they can't have it both ways.

Last year I attended GWC I in Missoula, MT and it was great. This was prior to the FSP voting on a state and all the western states made a showing to vie for the FSP to select their state. I met some notable friends of freedom and made some new friends. This year, I was invited to GWC II and was very excited. I urged two of my friends to make the trip with me.
Overall, I had a great time. However, before I get into the good parts, let me make a few criticisms of the conference. First, the conference has been promoted for about 5 months - primarily by Ben Irvin. Oddly enough, Ben did not attend. I was hesitant to come this year because the cost was $75. Ben urged me to come explaining what a good value it was saying that it included breakfast and lunch all three days, and that Boston T. Party and JJ Johnson would be the key speakers. Oddly enough, I was told that Ben didn't come due to financial difficulties, there were only two lunches served, and JJ Johnson never showed up. If I am not mistaken, this is not the first time that JJ pulled a no-show/no-call. Bait and switch really disturbs me. If I had known in advance that there would be 2 lunches and one key speaker in a three-day event, I might not have gone for that kind of money. I may have, but my decision to pony-up the money was based on bad information. Another thing that bugged me was that it was that the 'panels' were not representative of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho. They were heavily Montana.
OK, now that I have gotten that off my chest, I can tell you that I am glad I went. There were some friendly faces and I made some new friends. The best part was the breaks when the guests got to visit with each other.
We camped about 14 miles from the Sacajawea Hotel and did a little fishing on the Madison River. Had it not been so windy, I think our campsite would have been an ideal setting for the conference.
The Hotel was beautiful, all the help at the hotel was extremely nice, and the food was good.
The visitors from Alberta marveled at the setting. We walked in and out of the hotel with bottles of beer and side arms. It really was an amazing site. Motorcycles riding by with no helmets, people wearing guns everywhere and getting NO dirty looks, bringing our own drinks into restaurants, teenage girls riding in the back of pickup trucks on the wheel wells, dogs with no leashes, and folks sharing home brewed beer with friends. My friend Dale was stopped by the police because one of my headlights was out. Dale informed the officer that he had a concealed firearm and the officer seemed appreciative to learn that, but not alarmed. Then, Dale said he had no idea where the registration and insurance card for my truck was and the cop said, "OK, well to your friend to get this light fixed." Dale was so stunned and this polite treatment that he felt compelled to shake the cop's hand.
The overall message was that a western free zone is imminent. Boston believes that focusing on 5 Wyoming counties offers the best chance for success. After reading his novel "Molon Labe!” I think you will agree that he might be right. The fact is that if we can attract freedom lovers to five counties - one county at a time - we will be far better off than anywhere else in the country.
Towards the end of the conference, we broke out into state groups. When we did this last year, 80% of the group went to the Montana table and only 7 people went to the Wyoming table. This year, it was just the opposite - about 80% of the group came to the Wyoming table and the rest went to the Montana table. We talked about jobs, and housing, and time frames. What we learned was that just from the folks at the table, there was almost a perfect balance for a community effort. We had folks from every walk of life and many self-proclaimed "jacks of all trades". We also had entrepreneurs who could provide jobs to others. It was a very positive realization. Seven folks at the table plan to move in the next 2 - 12 months. Most of the others plan for 18 - 24 months.
I think the next "conference" should be more of a "Rendezvous" in Wyoming. Everyone pitch a tent and bring something to share. How about some time in August???

Turn The Flag

Reprinted with permission from Turn the Flag (note: the author was nice enough to mention that he has been doing this since he read it on one of my web sites back in 2002. And I thought nobody cared.)

Monday, April 05, 2004

I'm a vet and a registered Republican, and I am sick and tired of what the Bush Administration is doing to our nation.

They have led us to an unjustified war based on lies. American servicemen and women are dying every day in Iraq for a lie and for the Bush Administration's plan to divvy up the Middle East oil assets among their friends in the oil business.

Our Treasury has been plundered. Our economy is a shambles. And the President knowingly and willfully LIED about the Weapons of Mass Destruction - and has the audacity to JOKE about it.

In the movie "The Last Castle" starring Robert Redford, the main character is a famous general wrongly imprisoned. He leads his men to revolt against the corrupt and evil prison warden and in the climax of the movie, hangs the Stars and Stripes upside down in the prison yard - the universal sign of distress.

Now is the time for us to let our voices be heard. I love our flag and honor the thousands of men and women who have died to establish and preserve the values our nation was founded upon - Life, Liberty, Equality and Freedom of Expression.

This is not an unpatriotic act (The Flag Code Title 36, U.S.C., Chapter 10). This act symbolizes the highest of American virtues - the courage to stand up against tyranny and inhumanity. To defend our Constiution against all enemies - foreign and domestic.

Friday, April 30 is Turn The Flag Day. Our nation is in distress, and we will hoist the inverted Stars and Stripes to the top of the mast in cities and towns across the nation.

Spread the word and join us.

Posted by frantic summer at 6:38 PM

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Air Marshal's Make Me FEEL So Safe...

This week, a female federal air marshal accidentally left her gun in a restroom at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport. Her name was not be released and a spokesman for the federal Air Marshal Service, said the marshal probably would be suspended."

Well, don't you feel safer now, knowing how conscientious these air marshals are. Federal air marshal's make $80,000 a year and are supposed to be on high alert all the time. My quesion is why would ANY concealed carry holder - let alone an undercover federal agent - lay their firearm on a shelf while they washed their hands in a public restroom?

Tell me again why our pilots still aren't armed?

(4/9/04)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/708072380.html

Ron Copier Passed Away April 10th, 2004

Ron was a friend to many, a good Libertarian, and an activist of the freedom movement. He will be missed.
Salt Lake Tribune Obituary

Scroll down to Friday April 2, to read my tribute.

Imagine a 1000-Acre Township of Self-Ruling Individuals.

Imagine a mountain community with 250 – 300 families who each respect each other’s rights. A community where greenhouses and square foot gardening is encouraged. A place that is 70% – 80% self-sufficient. A place where each homestead is on 3 – 5 acres.
Imagine a place with water rights that predate the state’s charter.
A place that can not only generate their own power, but can subsidize their community with the revenue they earn selling power to the power company.
Imagine owning 3 – 5 acres outright and not having to pay property tax on it.
A place where having a car is not a necessity, but an option.
A place where neighbors willingly share their expertise with their community - for the good of the community.
A place where the quality of people attracted, and the expertise that they can bring to the community, greatly outweighs the profit motive of the founders.
A place that is not “governed” by a committee, but allows each landowner to have an equal voice in the planning and development. A community that will not exclude people for the religious beliefs or their individual differences.
A community with million dollar views.
Imagine buying a three acre plot in a place like that for $1000 an acre. Someone already did. I visited there yesterday. While some of these ideas on only in the wishing stage, most of them are already possible. Either way, I like the way they think.

George W. Bush isn’t so much a president as a superhero.

George W. Bush to the rescue!

George W. Bush isn’t so much a president as a superhero.

When he’s not saving Planet Earth from Evil Terrorists, he’s providing the Greatest Generation with free drugs. When he’s not colonizing Iraq and Afghanistan, he is planning to colonize the moon. When he’s not keeping every child from being Left Behind, he’s saving the holy institution of marriage from those who would destroy it.

The marriage-saving thing is what has really caught my attention. I’m no expert on the subject, although next week I will celebrate my 20th wedding anniversary. What astounds me, is that my wife and I have lasted so long without the help of any government program.

Maybe we’re just in denial.

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Source: STEVEN GREENHUT LewRockwell.com

12 year old shoots 8 year old with Grandfather's Gun

A good friend send me this very serious message today. I post it so that others may benefit.

A bad thing happened in NJ that I know about from working with the teacher of one of the two kids involved. It raises questions for me I'm not sure how to answer.
Situation: 12 year old boy was visiting his grandfather. His 8 year old cousin also was. (There may or may not have been other people but it doesn't matter.) The 12 year old came upon a 38 calibre handgun. He shot his cousin in the back, above the kidneys. Kid went to the hospital and eventually died.
That's all we know about the situation. First reaction of most adults, including me: why did the grandfather have a loaded 38 calibre handgun lying around where a kid could get it?
Then, for me, after some thought, I came upon this dilemma: Assuming the grandfather keeps a handgun around in case of self defense, how much use would it be to him if it was locked in a cabinet separate from another cabinet in which was locked the ammunition? Wouldn't he need to have it in a place where he could get it quickly and use it quickly? And, if that is the case, how can he insure that a person visiting would not get it?
Would you entertain this dialog with me please? I am trying to have a more sophisticated understanding of guns and the right to have them. I also know accidents happen. Please let me know what you think about this above situation. I'd appreciate your comments.

Here is my Reply
Great question. Thank you for asking.
It is true that people, especially elderly, weak, and infirmed, should be allowed to have a gun for self defense. It is also correct that in a self-defense situation, a gun in a safe with ammo in another location is useless.
The fact is that gun owners need to be responsible. It is the responsibility of gun owners to practice gun safety at all times. Many folks I know always have a loaded gun accessible within a few steps or a few seconds. BUT, I if they leave a gun in their car, they LOCK the car so someone will not find the gun and possibly hurt themselves or someone else.
In their home, all adults in the home know where all loaded guns are. All loaded guns are where they are inaccessible to children. Also, most of my loaded guns could not be fired by my 4 and 5 year old kids or any of their friends because of the strength needed to chamber a round. As an additional safety, guns are stored in "safe" position.
When I am in a car with others who might not be as knowledgeable about guns and gun safety, I either lock the gun in glove box or keep it on my person - in my control. In Utah, CCW holders are required to do this when non-CCW holders are in the car with them. Many people keep lots of guns in an officer or work area. These areas should be secured with a deadbolt and lock when away. This also keeps the guns away from babysitters.
The bottom line is that the grandfather was probably raised at a time when everyone was familiar with guns and they were a part of life. Children were taught proper gun safety and knew that they were to never touch a gun and CERTAINLY never point it at anything they did not wish to kill (destroy).
The media may milk this for everything it is worth and suggest that guns must be in safes, kids shouldn't be permitted to watch movies that have gun violence, all gun owners need to pass safety exams yearly, or some other knee-jerk nonsense.
The truth is that if gun safety training were still taught in schools, this would never have happened. The truth is that it is always easy to point the finger after a tragedy. The truth is that grandpa will probably commit suicide over the guilt he feels (but he won't use a gun because the police probably stole every gun the guy had).
I am very sorry for the parents, the kid and the old man. Unfortunately, tragic accidents happen. If this were a case where a kid pushed his friend in a pool and the friend drown, it would barely make the news. However, the anti-gun crowd prays for events like this to point out how evil guns are and that they must be stopped for the sake of the children - you have heard the rhetoric. The fact is that hundreds of children drown every year, but very few are shot accidentally - even though there are FAR more guns than there are pools.

Your initial response is a good one - "why did the grandfather have a loaded 38 caliber handgun lying around where a kid could get it?"
He shouldn't have. If his son or daughter knew that he had a gun, they should have reminded him to put the gun away - or remove the bullets while grandpa watches the kids - or carry the gun concealed - or, take the kids out and give them a demonstration of the power of a .38, the damage it can do to a coffee can, the safe handling of a gun, and explain why an old man feels the need to have it and why children must NEVER touch a gun except under the permission and supervision of a parent or gun instructor. I'm sure that the kids parent is also beating themselves up and wondering what they could have done differently too.

Because I have guns in my home, I have given my wife and kids safety lessons on gun handling. I have NEVER ONCE, had my kids touch any of my guns even when they had the opportunity. I have two BB rifles in the kitchen cabinet so that they are familiar with seeing guns. I take them out in the back yard to shoot them every couple of weeks and give the entire gun safety lesson each time. I make the girls tell me the answers. They never forget, have never once shown bad muzzle control, and love to shoot. They are both very good shots. Guns are a part of my life. They will be a part of my kids life.

I have heard so many people say, "...if it would save just one life...".
Here is a suggestion that I believe could save a lot of lives. Teach children basic gun safety.
1. All guns are loaded. There is no such thing as an empty gun. Always check the chamber and magazine of a gun when you pick it up.
2. Never point a gun at anything you do not want to kill. (I never let any kids point toy guns at other kids. I tell their parents that if I see it, I will take the gun away and teach the kid gun safety. The parents think I am nuts, but the kids learn muzzle control. My girls come to me immediately and inform on anyone who is not handling a toy gun safely.)

Here is a web page with a list of safety training aids. http://www.nrahq.org/youth/resources.asp
If a 15 minute video could prevent 30 kids from having a similar accident, why not show it. OR, Get some material for the school library and send a note to parents saying, "Due to the recent tragedy involving a gun accident, we have purchased some gun safety videos for the library. If you own guns, or believe that your children may enter a home where they own guns, we urge you to show these videos to your family. Thank you."

We can't undo the tragic event, but through proper education, other accidents could be avoided.
Keeping kids in the dark is not the answer. Blaming guns is not the answer.

Thank you for asking my my opinion. I am happy to discuss this further. Was this helpful? Do you agree with me?

Here is another link.
http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp
1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.
2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
When holding a gun, rest your finger on the trigger guard or along the side of the gun. Until you are actually ready to fire, do not touch the trigger.

3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
Whenever you pick up a gun, immediately engage the safety device if possible, and, if the gun has a magazine, remove it before opening the action and looking into the chamber(s) which should be clear of ammunition. If you do not know how to open the action or inspect the chamber(s), leave the gun alone and get help from someone who does.

Plural marriages - Who are they hurting?

I just read Confessions of a Libertarian Polygamist and found it fascinating. I have talked with several people in the past year that either come from plural marriages or are polyamorous themselves. In fact, I am very surprised at the number of folks I have met and the vast numbers that seem to exist.
The thing is, it doesn't bother me in the least. In fact, as long as all parties involved are consenting adults, what business is it of anyone else? I find it difficult to maintain a relationship with one wife, so I am not sure I would have much luck in a relationship with multiple loves. In any event, I think adults should be allowed to be with whoever they love - and if that means more than one person - more power to them. The world needs more loving families.

GUN CONTROL - A brief history

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
From 1929 to about 1953, 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. >From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!)
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.
(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns."
The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans.....before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects.

When Will We Be Free?

Have you heard the armed forces propaganda spots on the radio? "Imagine a place, where you are totally free...to criticize the government... imagine living in a place like that. Oh, that's right...you already do."
What a pile of crap. The truth is that most of the "rights" that our founding fathers took pains to protect, have been eroded and ignored by the government.

The Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto Translated

---

Posted below is a comparison of the original ten planks of the Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx in 1848, along with the American adopted counterpart of each of the planks, The American people have truly been "buried in Communism" by their own politicians of both the Republican and Democratic parties. One other thing to remember, Karl Marx was stating in the Communist Manifesto that these planks will test whether a country has become commmunist or not. If they are all in effect and in force the country IS communist. Communism, but by any other name...??

---

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose.

The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance

We call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels

We call in government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

We call it the Federal Reserve which is a credit/debt system nationally organized by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). This private bank has an exclusive monopoly in money creation which in reality has ended the need for revenue from taxes. So why do they tax? To FOOL YOU into thinking they need them.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State

We call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) madated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.
There is also the postal monopoly, AMTRACK and CONRAIL

7. Extention of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

We call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Evironmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

8. Equal liablity of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000. And I almost forgot...The Equal Rights Amendment means that women should do all work that men do including the military and since passage it would make women subject to the draft.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

We call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

People are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" .

---

So I ask you...does changing the words, change the end result?

None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free....


It is my hope that one day, a great number of individuals will become self-reliant and demand to live as free men. That they will refuse to allow others to violate their right to be free. No matter how hard the work is, they will have an inner smile and inner peace because they will be free. Such a peace can only come to those willing to defend that freedom with their lives. I hope to see you there.

Tribute to Ron - Defender of Liberty

Just one year ago today, my friend Ron was interviewed by purepolitics.com. Read the interview. I just had a visit with my friend Ron. Although I have only known him for a couple of years, he has always been a solid guy. He was always smiling, great attitude, never shirking responsibility, never whining about what OTHERS should do, never passing the buck, never ashamed or afraid to speak up with his opinions or to defend his beliefs. He is just one of those guys who bears down on whatever needs doing and gets it done. I saw him a couple of months ago at a meeting and he was looking good, but he had so much going on that he wasn't sure if he would be able to run for office this year. In 2002, Ron ran for Congress.
In addition to running for Congress, Ron was working full time and raising race horses. He had a full schedule, but still had time for softball and to watch the Utah Jazz games.
Ron had a birthday yesterday. His home was filled with flowers, balloons and friends and family. Although Ron is a dedicated freedom activist, he will not be running for office this year. He will not be going to any more Jazz games, he won't be playing any more softball, and he is getting rid of the horses he loves. Ron is sick - and short of a miracle, may not live to see another month, let alone another birthday. To my friend Ron, I send my deepest prayers and thank him for his work in the fight for freedom. May his passage be painless and easy.

WARNING! US Government Disarming Those Who Rebel Against Despots!

(Copied from There4IAm list)
"...Gee, so the whole "your paranoid, the govt. isn't out to get your guns" is a bunch of crap. The gov. obviously is out to disarm people, in and out of the US.
A man or woman without arms is not only foolish, they are contemptable. If you don't own arms at this point you are nothing more than a bag of noxious gas spewing propaganda you don't have the fortitude to back up. "

Attached article opened:

Peaceable Texans For Firearm Rights
1122 Colorado Ste. 2320 Austin, TX 78701
512-476-2299 Fax 476-9504

Sunday, March 28, 2004 Copyright 2004 Las Vegas Review-Journal

VIN SUPRYNOWICZ: You can't hide your lying eyes

I see where the people of Haiti finally got sick of defrocked collectivist
priest and all-around "necklace" killer Jean-Bertrand Aristide, took up arms, and kicked him out.

So what are U.S. forces doing there now? About 1,800 of our guys have been sent in to -- in the words of Associated Press reporter Paisley Dodds -- "rid the nation of guns."

Hey, good plan. In the great tradition of George Washington, Francis Marion, and young Jim Monroe, the Haitian people just used firearms to throw out a vicious tyrant, and the immediate goal of Big White Brother is to "rebuild a shattered police force and disarm militants who began the insurgency."

At least back in 1994, when the freedom-loving Bill Clinton sent in 20,000 troops to install Aristide the murderous dictator, U.S. troops offered to buy these weapons of freedom in order to better enslave the natives. This time (Mr. Dodds reports) "Haitians ... are being asked to give up their guns with little or no incentive and in a very insecure environment."

The only good news? U.S. forces, Mr. Dodds reports, have so far "recovered two shotguns. Their Chilean counterparts have confiscated three weapons."

Washington City has no constitutional authorization whatever to spend our tax dollars sending troops into Haiti to disarm "uppity Negroes" who dared fight to win their own freedom. And also for the record, there were no organized police departments in this country until the 1850s.

That's right: From 1776 until at least 1850 America was a nation of "armed insurgent militants" with no government police. And we got along just fine.

How do you think the people of the proud, young, free United States of America would have reacted if some foreign army had arrived here in 1783 with the declared the goal of "ridding the nation of the guns" that had just been used to win America's freedom?

Why does our Second Amendment say a well-armed citizen militia is necessary?
That's right, it's "necessary to the security of a free state."

After all, as early as 1785, our own Southern states were passing laws that "No slaves shall keep any arms whatever, nor pass, unless with written orders from his master or employer, or in his company, with arms from one place to another."

Whereas, in his proposed constitution for the state of Virginia, Thomas Jefferson wrote: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Notice the definitive difference there between "free men" and "slaves"?

In 1788, debating the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, a great patriot and friend of Washington named George Mason stood in Richmond and recalled: "When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was Governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should do it not openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually. ... I ask, who are the Militia? They consist now
of the whole people, except a few public officers." And it was no less a freedom-fighter than Mohandas Gandhi who said, in 1927: "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of its arms as the blackest."

And this conspiracy to attack and remove the very tools of freedom is not isolated. There isn't even any Second Amendment in the new Iraqi constitution, according to World Net Daily.

In a March 10 piece bearing the sub-headline "Colin Powell hails prohibition on arms while emphasizing 'liberty,' " WND correspondent Ron Strom writes:
"Iraq's new interim constitution sounds many of the same themes as the U.S. Constitution in guaranteeing freedom of the people -- with one stark difference: There is no right to keep and bear arms in the new charter."

The document does indeed promise a whole bunch of freedoms. (So did the Soviet Constitution.) But when it comes to civilian ownership of military-style arms -- which our founding fathers warned us was the last and only real safeguard of the rest of our liberties?

The only reference to individual ownership of arms is in Article 17: "It shall not be permitted to possess, bear, buy, or sell arms except on licensure issued in accordance with the law."

And Article 27 further addresses the formation of militias: "Armed forces and militias not under the command structure of the Iraqi Transitional Government are prohibited, except as provided by federal law."

America's leading gun-rights organization quickly registered strong opposition to this nonsense.

"It's a very big mistake," said Erich Pratt, director of communications for Gun Owners of America. "What an interesting contrast to what our Founding Fathers thought."

Not that any of this should come as a surprise. Aaron Zelman's Milwaukee-based Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership recently noticed our own federal naturalization folks now require incoming citizens to study a booklet which claims our Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms "subject
to certain reasonable restrictions." When JPFO contacted our duplicitous federal masters to ask where in our founding documents they found this "subject to certain reasonable restrictions" language ... they received no answer.

Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Review-Journal and author of the books "Send in the Waco Killers" and "The Ballad of Carl Drega."
His Web site is www.privacyalert.us.

Poverty Level Park Rangers

Members of the Utah Park Service sent around a questionaaire to candidates seeking public office this week. In a nut shell, it said that starting pay for park rangers was only $25,000 a year and if elected, would you be willing to see that they get pay raises - at least as much as the law enforcement officers in West Valley City?

Here is my initial, though not politically correct, response:

I know 4 people who work for the park service. All but one are single.
One of them gets FREE lodging from the park service in exchange for 4
hours a week of cleaning outhouses.
I also know someone who has a family of four who recently was fired
from his job of 14 years. He was making over $70K a year and now
qualifies for food stamps.
I know people who own restaurants that make $60,000 a year, but entry
level jobs in the restaurant business pay $4 an hour.
The fact is that "entry level" jobs with the park service are
typically snapped up by tree huggers fresh out of college. If you have
a family of 4 and still have an entry level job with park service,
move on.
The entry pay for teachers is pathetic, yet most folks in the state
see these jobs as vital to our future. With such a fragile economy,
gas prices hovering at $2 per gallon, a war sucking Billions of taxes
a year and rising taxes on the horizon, how on earth does the park
service have the nerve to ask Utahns to raise taxes again so that
people who get to hike and ride 4-wheelers all day get pay equal to
someone who drives a patrol car in West Valley City?
According to Bush, the economy is wonderful and getting better every
day. If watching trees grow isn't paying the bills, considering
changing jobs.
By the way, what is the "perceived value" of the benefits package of a
full time park ranger? I'll bet it is a darn site better than the
benefits package of a full time dishwasher at Denny's.

Open Borders - Revised 4/2/04

I hate it when "nitwits" try to oversimplify political ideals in an effort to "dismiss" entire political parties. As an example, here are a few excerpts from a racist email editorial by Joe McCarthy that is making the rounds. My comments are in Bold.
I have also included a great response from Ragnar following the original message.

Why Libertarians Are a Joke, by Joe McCarthy

"...the issue that convinces me of the patent lunacy of Libertarians is found in the
Libertarian Party plank on immigration. Here is the pertinent excerpt:

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/immigrat.html

"Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to
labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be
restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual
preference.

We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration,
the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border
Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered
the country illegally. We oppose government welfare and resettlement
payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to
all other persons."

I hope I don't have to point how nutty it is to call for getting rid of the
Border Patrol and abolishing the border! It should be taken for granted how
nutty it is. If we abolished the border, America would end.
(Joe has employed "selective" memory in his presentation of LP philosophy. Here is another link to an editorial on the LP website which I feel BETTER summarizes the LP position on immigration - http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration.html. For the record, the platform can only be changed at the National convention. The next convention will be held in Atlanta later this year. The platform committee has been working on plaform changes to present at the convention.)


Those "huddled masses" that we read about on the plaque of the Statue of Liberty would pour
in by the millions. Anyone who could scrape together the funds would be here
on the first boat. Let's be serious -- this is lunacy!
(It is not lunacy. It happened for 100 years and we were the freest, most productive nation on earth.)
With zero border controls, coupled with our infinitely higher living standards, I don't think that it would be alarmist to say that we could expect HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of third world immigrants on our doorstep within a few months! Can you imagine the strain on our social services, infrastructure, and schools? (We have similar problems today! But isn't the REAL problem the social services? If we did away with free medical, free housing, food stamps, welfare checks, and minimum wage laws, how many millions would be flooding over the borders to live here? Then, wouldn't those coming to the US be contributing to the development? Isn't it possible that those coming in would actually benfit us all?)
...to mention the anarchy that would ensue as a result of so many people coming in so fast? WOW! Obviously the idea of abolishing the border is a silly idea. Anyone suggesting it should probably be under the care of a psychiatrist. (Isn't the notion that our borders are currently protecting us from a flood of imigrants equally silly?)

As if the above problems with open borders aren't bad enough, we have the
issue of terrorists entering our nation, which has been in focus since 9/11.
Unshaken, the Libertarians continue to push for their open borders nonsense!

Another pertinent point was raised by Pat Buchanan in his syndicated column
sometime back. Libertarianism, despite its anti-statist ideology, leads to
statism. Their advocacy of loose immigration will lead to a swarm of third
world immigrants who inevitably vote for Democrats in overwhelming numbers.
Of course, it is only natural that immigrants (and non-Whites generally)
would vote for the party that promises them the most lucre out of Whitey's
pocket.(See what I mean about racist? Joe is losing any credibility he may have started with.) Immigrants, on average are on welfare at a much higher rate than
natives, and Democrats excel at giving them other people's money. The idea
that Mexican immigrants, for example, would support privatizing Social
Security, or support Lockean ideas on property, or other Libertarianesque
ideas developed by 'dead white male racists' is absurd. Individual liberty
is a concept virtually unknown to the third world. It is not organic to
their culture or history. Therefore, Libertarianism, despite its avowed
anti-statism, would lead to statism on a massive scale. (It already has to a
degree. Most of us probably remember the Clinton scheme to short circuit the
naturalization process of making citizens out of immigrants in time for them
to vote Democrat in 1996. Sure enough, Libertarian 'think tanks' like the
Cato Institute have been on the front lines pushing hard for loose border
controls.)

One thing that I find amusing about the Libertarian Party, is its utter
cluelessness on matters relating to race and culture. The fact that liberty
oriented, anti-statist ideas originated with White people, and is
consequently more likely to be implemented by Whites, seems to allude them.
Nor does it seem to dawn on them that the vast majority of their party
faithful are White. Do you see Mexican immigrants rushing to join the LP? Of
course not! Is there any reason to believe that Mexicans, who come from a
country rooted in socialism, statism, and collectivism will EVER support the
LP? Of course not!

So you see, at bottom, what clinches my argument that Libertarians are a
joke, is that they support a policy -- mass immigration -- which will
destroy any chance of their good ideas ever being implemented. Every time
another immigrant enters this country, the ideas of property rights,
constitutional government, and individual liberty go just that much farther
down the drain.

In conclusion, I'll leave any halfway sane Libertarians who may be reading
this with a parting message:

WAKE UP YOU NITWITS!

JOE McCARTHY

----- Begin Ragnar's comments ------

If I was held at gunpoint (the modus operandi of government) and forced to be
the "platform creator" for this plank of the LP, mine would go something like
this:

=== addition / modification ===
Undocumented non-citizens, whether from outside the boundaries claimed by the
governments of the United States, the several states, or any county or
municipality therein as containing a monopoly on the use of force, or those
human beings from within the same boundaries who of their own free will choose
to be undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to

> labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be
> restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual
> preference.
>
> We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration,
> the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border
> Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered
> the country illegally. We oppose government welfare and resettlement
> payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to
> all other persons."

We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration,
the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border
Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered
the country illegally. We oppose government welfare and resettlement
payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to
all other persons.
=== addition / modification ===
Therefore, to alleviate the potential problems that would result from open
borders with loose government purse strings, we call for a concurrent
elimination of welfare, social security, medicare, medicaid, aid to dependent
children, Women Infants and Children (WIC), government schools, any other
wealth redistribution / transfer payment system of which we are not
specifically aware for any person be they "citizen," immigrant under current
"legal" status or immigrant currently considered illegal.

============================
Then this Joe McCarthy, who must be a direct inbred descendant of Senator
Joseph McCarthy, drools all over his shirt front as he spews forth a babbling,
ad-hominem rant with not one iota of proof toward his emotionally charged
assertions:
> ... I hope I don't have to point how nutty it is to call for getting rid of the
> Border Patrol and abolishing the border! It should be taken for granted how
>nutty it is.

Why should we take it for granted? Because this babbling neanderthal with a
thin veneer of intellectual prowess says it is so? If I start with an axiom
(that's right, I said axiom, it is axiomatic not derivative) that each human
being has a right to his own life, I cannot logically progress to a conclusion
that it is nutty to allow someone to travel unfettered where he desires without
first obtaining the approval of anyone other than the person who would own the
property where this person wants to travel.

>... WOW! Obviously the idea of abolishing the border is a silly
> idea. Anyone suggesting it should probably be under the care of a psychiatrist...

Maybe Joe can recommend his?

...Here we get an unsubstantiated conclusion posited by that virtuouso logician
Pat Buchanan:
> Another pertinent point was raised by Pat Buchanan in his syndicated column
> sometime back. Libertarianism, despite its anti-statist ideology, leads to statism.

Prove it!!!!!

> Their advocacy of loose immigration will lead to a swarm of third
> world immigrants who inevitably vote for Democrats in overwhelming numbers.
> Of course, it is only natural that immigrants (and non-Whites generally)
> would vote for the party that promises them the most lucre out of Whitey's pocket.

You racist bastard - I see where you are coming from now.

> that Mexican immigrants, for example, would support privatizing Social
> Security, or support Lockean ideas on property, or other Libertarianesque
> ideas developed by 'dead white male racists' is absurd.

It would probably take at least 4 of Senor Joe to produce the labor of any one
of the Mexicans around where I live

> Therefore, Libertarianism, despite its avowed
> anti-statism, would lead to statism on a massive scale. (It already has to a degree.

Where was this where Libetarianism existed and it is now massively statist? I
don't recollect any previously existing Libertarian society. Was it the one
this inbred's ancestor tried to save by his Senate communist witch hunt?

...

> In conclusion, I'll leave any halfway sane Libertarians who may be reading
> this with a parting message:
>
> WAKE UP YOU NITWITS!
>
> JOE McCARTHY

Was that message for the half that was sane or the half that was insane? He
concludes with the same ad-hominems that permeated his slobbering screed.

(No time to proof read, ya gets what ya gets)

=====
Ragnar

"You are not to inquire how your trade may be increased, nor how you are to
become a great and powerful people, but how your liberties can be secured; for
liberty ought to be the direct end of your government." Patrick Henry

"I need to go feed my hogs." Irwin Mann in Unintended Consequences